Opinion: agree with Anti Defamation League - Musk just made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm NOT a Nazi salute - Musk said "my heart goes out to you" - and MANY other details don't match
- Trump can't be a Hitler anyway whatever anyone does
Update: the Anti Defamation League, an NGO founded to fight anti-semetism says it is not a Nazi salute.
It seems that @elonmusk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge.
President Netanyahu of Israel also tweeted that it is not a Nazi salute.
I have followed Elon Musk for many years because of my personal interest in space exploration. He just doesn't know lots of things most people know. I give some examples here to show that he often makes basic mistakes in topics in science he's especially keen on. He has shown no sign of being interested in history.
It doesn’t read to me like an off colour Musk joke to me, the context is wrong.
It was a moment of celebration and enthusiasm for him.
He said
QUOTE "Thankyou for making it happen"
- guestures out in an awkward way to the crowd with raised hand
"my heart goes out to you".
My personal view on what happened: I think Elon Musk likely doesn’t have much understanding of or interest in history. I think he just never paid any attention to how Nazis saluted in WW2.
He is far more interested in other topics such as science fiction. I expect many geeky space enthusiast science fiction fans similar to Elon Musk don’t know what a Nazi salute is (not sure how to check %s).
It doesn't match Musk's character or the occasion to give a Nazi salute when he is enthusiastic and joyful that Trump said he wants Americans to land on Mars.
Then on the gesture itself, I see one similarity and six differences from a Nazi salute:
The only similarity I see is:
the final position of his hand, that it was raised rather than horizontal.
The six differences are that the Nazis
didn’t start by saying thankyou,
didn’t thump their hearts with their hands [sometimes started with the hand near the heart area but not thumping it
didn’t say “My heart goes out to you”.
raised their hand in the direction they were facing not sideways like Musk
raised their hands with an upwards movement in front of them. Musk did more of an overhand gesture.
didn't finish it by slapping the heart region again - the Nazis kept their right hand high for a long time then just slowly lowered it again.
The Nazi salute is not about the heart at all.
He is also a rather direct person. If he meant it as deliberate or a joke he would do it in a way that you couldn't mistake.
TEXT ON GRAPHIC
Musk: Thankyou for making it happen. [Thumps heart, puts hand in air].
My heart goes out to you.
[These words don’t match a Nazi salute]
A US president can never be a dictator because of the robust US Constitution
American Journalist Anne Bagamery: I begin to wonder if anyone in this new administration, if anyone in the MAGA universe has ever picked up a history book
Personal opinion: Musk had no idea it looked like a Nazi salute, and was doing a “My heart goes out to you” guesture.
Here is a similar “my heart goes out to you” gesture from Tim Walz.
I think this is what Musk intended to do.
See this interview:
I expect he would know that the Nazis saluted Hitler. But as someone with no interest in history, he likely wouldn't know what the salute looked like - he has likely never seen those old archived videos of the Nazi rallies.
He'd be able to reel off lots of details of Ian Banks books that most of us don't have a clue about. He'd know lots of things about Star Trek. But he couldn't tell you much about WW2.
I know he has said and done other far right things. But this doesn't look remotely like those occasions. He is also a rather direct person. If he meant it as deliberate or a joke he would do it in a way that you couldn't mistake.
It's also the wrong occasion and wrong situation. He was celebrating. He was excited about the possibility of future astronauts visiting Mars.
This video gives the larger context and is the result of a detailed body analysis, nothing in the context fits a nazi salute.
Here is the usual version of it. Just raise hand in front and keep raised for several seconds as for the Hitler parades and speeches.
There is a modern Neonazi variation with the hand starting near the heart in some cases - you can find clips online clipped to one person that starts with the hand near their heart.
But there is no heat symbolism, no slap on the heart, and the hand can start anywhere, shoulder, middle of body, or hand by side.
In this screenshot of neonazis about to start their salute, none of them have their hands near their heart
From video here:
This variation on the neonazi salute still does not start with a thump on the heart. There is no heart symbolism, it's just that some start with the hand near the heart, others with it by their side.
Musk IS far right on some things including immigration. He does support the AfD. But he isn’t a neo nazi.
And I think it is pretty obvious this wasn't what he wanted his presence on the stage to be about.
He would know that doing a Nazi salute would cause a media storm. It makes no sense on any level to deliberately do a Nazi salute and there is nothing to suggest he is in the habit of doing them and did it instinctively either.
He is someone who is clumsy, awkward, often seems to lack social awareness.
That’s why I see it as another of many examples of him not being able to figure out how others would interpret what he does.
In this case my opinion is that for whatever reason, he simply didn’t figure out that if he points high towards the crowd with a straight arm while saying “My heart goes out to you” that others would see it as a Nazi salute.
He hasn’t apologized but that isn’t his character, he never apologizes for things like this. He just shows disdain for those who could think it is a Nazi salute. Examples here, and here. Also the tweet retweeted by Netanyahu here.
Anyway, whatever Musk's gesture meant he is not going to do it again you can be sure. Or anyone in Trump’s cabinet or any of his billionaire friends.
But nobody has come up with any examples of a neonazi thumping their heart or saying "my heart goes out to you" as they salute
As to whether Musk is far right - first he’s moved, he used to be more centrist. But now, he is far right in some ways especially on immigration. But he is also very pro Israel so that's not normal for a neonazi. He is a confusing person. He also is easily persuaded of false conspiracy theories.
I think that Trump will get fed up of having Musk close to him possibly quite quickly. Probably not a big falling out but a gradual distancing.
Trump can’t be a dictator like Hitler and Musk can’t even be president ever
Trump can’t be a dictator like Hitler. No US president can ever because of the clear and well written US Constution and the independent Judiciary and an American public that has no hesitation to take cases to the courts.
Musk can’t even be a president of the USA ever as he was born outside of it.
See my:
UPDATE The Anti-defamation league, NGO founded to fight antisemitism - says it was an awkward guesture in a moment of enthusiasm not a Nazi salute
QUOTE It seems that @elonmusk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute
In context:
This is a delicate moment. It’s a new day and yet so many are on edge. Our politics are inflamed, and social media only adds to the anxiety.
It seems that @elonmusk made an awkward gesture in a moment of enthusiasm, not a Nazi salute, but again, we appreciate that people are on edge.
In this moment, all sides should give one another a bit of grace, perhaps even the benefit of the doubt, and take a breath. This is a new beginning. Let’s hope for healing and work toward unity in the months and years ahead.
. https://x.com/ADL/status/1881474892022919403
They are an NGO founded to stop antisemitism.
Elon Musk strongly supports Israel
Elon Musk has strong support for Israel and visited Israel with Netanyahu.
When Netanyahu said you have to get rid of the poisonous regime as in WW2, Mr Musk said “There’s no choice”.
QUOTE STARTS
"You first have to get rid of the poisonous regime as you did in Germany, as you did in Japan. Yeah, in World War Two," Mr Netanyahu said.
Mr Musk replied: "There's no choice. There's no choice."
Example to show how Elon Musk is often not well briefed on things you expect him to know - he said solar power from space is impossible - at the same time that ESA and JAXA were actively developing it
You would think he would know about space technology. After all he is the CEO of SpaceX.
But he often used to say that solar power from space can’t work. He said that solar panels would be far more costly to operate in space than on the ground, which is true.
He said that it “super obviously is not going to work”.
But the Japanese space agency JAXA has a major program for future solar power from space to support Japan which has to import a lot of power from overseas. ESA have an interest too and there are many papers on the topic.
What he missed is that they do not plan to put vast square kilometers of the thick solar panels we have on Earth in space. Instead, the idea is to use thin film mirrors like solar sails. Microns thick. They would blow apart in the slightest breeze on Earth but in space you can spread them out over square kilometers and there is nothing to disturb them.
Alternatively, ultra thin film phtoelectric panels that again would not survive on Earth without a heavy substrate convert the sunlight to power directly and then transfer them to the laser or microwave transmitters..
This is safe, not like the microwaves in your oven and the laser beams are low power.
This is how ESA envision it:
The details are covered in this paper which does a detailed economic assessment and finds it competitive with present day energy costs:
Employing thin film solar cell technology, each sail is used as a solar array and produces an electric power in orbit of about 3.7 MWe. A microwave antenna with a diameter of 1 km transmits the power to a 10 km rectenna on the ground.
…
First estimates indicate that the costs for one kWh delivered in this way could compete with present day energy costs, ScienceDirect
It is a rookie mistake.
He never looked into it himself, or did a google search to find out if anyone else has, or asked one of his many employees to do this.
If he had, he would have found this material within minutes.
SpaceX’s new big rocket may bring costs down so much that it makes solar power from space commercially feasible in the near future.
. SpaceX's Starship could help this start-up beam clean energy from space. Here's how (video)
. Orbital Composites and Virtus Solis announce space-based solar power demonstration
I could give many other examples of his bloopers like this.
Another mistake like this was when he claimed you could use nuclear weapons to “terraform Mars”.
If you do the calculations then it is completely unfeasible, vast inconcievable numbers of weapons to evaporate even a tiny amount of dry ice on Mars (and we also don’t know if there is enough of it anyway).
It was just an “off the cuff” remark in an interview but because of his reputation it was reported around the world. When the news started to report opinions of experts that it could never work he then implausibly suggested constantly detonating nuclear weapons to form a mini-sun above the Martian poles, an idea out of science fiction that we couldn’t begin to do today. I.e. doubled down on his mistake, in the original interview he had suggested it was easy with present day technology, this idea is way beyond anything we can consider doing even with future not yet developed but plausible technology.
He went on to make “Nuke Mars” teeshirts. But the whole thing was utterly impossible
TEXT ON GRAPHIC:
Can’t be done even with a million Tsar Bombas at 100 megatons
I did a blog post at the time with the maths:
Musk knows this is impossible. He just doubled down on the idea because he never says he made a mistake. But he then dropped the idea and no longer suggests that we could terraform Mars with nukes. It’s obviously impossible.
He's like that. As the wealthiest man in the world he could employ a team of advisers to check things for him. He doesn't even need to read papers or research himself. But he doesn't.
Similarly with this salute - I expect he has never read a history book about WW2, never watched a video about it and is totally unaware of the Nazi salute.
Of almost anyone else I wouldn't believe this but I believe it of Elon Musk, it fits his character.
Close resemblance to Nazi salute seems unlikely to be an accident - probably he saw someone use it but missed the context, what it meant
It is so exactly a Nazi salute he must have seen someone make the salute perhaps through his far right interests?
It is sometimes called a Roman salute. It does predate the Nazis but it seems to be a historical mistake, the Roman salute wasn’t the same.
He may get it from others who were inspired by Hitler - but he is likely just copying it subconsiously not even aware where he saw it.
This is the Nazi salute.
fire YouTube
Banned in many countries.
BTW the former British Queen as a child playfully imitated the Nazi salute in 1933 before it got its current connotations in this video here.
. Queen Nazi salute film: Palace 'disappointed' at use
It's sometimes shared out of context. Of course back then nobody knew what the symbolism would mean eventually.
Claim that Musk and his father supported apartheid is false and the opposite of the truth
Elon Musk doesn't come from a family involved in apartheid, they were opposed to it. The Zambia emerald mine story makes no sense as an apartheid story because Zambia was one of the alliance of SubSaharan countries opposed to apartheid from the early 1960s.
This is a claim that Musk has wealth from his father and that his father got it from a mine that had slave labour.
This is far from the truth. Nothing to suggest he or his father supported apartheid.
His father once had a stake in an emerald mine in Zambia. His father says the mine he had a stake in collapsed in 1989.
This mine couldn’t be apartheid as Zambia was one of the Sub Saharan African states that opposed apartheid with the signing of the Lusaka Manifesto in 1969.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusaka_Manifestohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusaka_Manifesto
His father makes this point that Zambia was anti-Apartheid and talks about his own efforts to fight Apartheid:
He says the mine collapsed in 1989
QUOTE Initially this trade was fairly good, but it collapsed in 1989 when Russia began producing perfect lab-emeralds at one tenth the price. Income from this source consequently abruptly died.
https://www.facebook.com/errol.musk/posts/10218340000911015
Also Musk didn't have wealth from his father when he came to the USA but rather a student debt.
Snopes fact check
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/11/17/elon-musk-emerald-mine/
Yes he has veered to the far right with his support of AfD but I think this is on policies like immigration.
He’s not racist or Nazi, nothing to suggest that in anything I’ve seen.
He is far right in his ideas about immigration and doesn’t understand European ideas of hate speech.
When he unbanned neo nazis that's part of his views on freedom of speech. It doesn't make him neo nazi.
He has far right views on many things. But I don’t think he is neo nazi.
Similarly Musk is totally unprepared to run the Department of Government Efficiency
This is the very reason that I think he will soon give up on his attempt to save $2 trillion as head of DOGE. From things he's said, he hasn't done his homework to try to learn anything about how the economy or the government works.
He has only an advisory role, he'll talk to lots of people in governmetn, they will try to explain to him how it works but he won't listen.
So I expect him to give advice to Trump that can't work. He has no power to do anything, most of it has to go through Congress and he hasn't a clue how to do that.
The Department of Government Efficiency is being sued as in violation of FACA a law that says that such advisory groups have to be
"fairly balanced in terms of the points of view represented and the functions to be performed by the advisory committee,”
and
"objective and accessible to the public,"
In more detail:
One suit, filed Monday by a public interest law firm called National Security Counselors, claims DOGE is operating as a federal advisory committee. That puts the initiative in violation of a law called the Federal Advisory Committee Act, or FACA, which regulates the functions and transparency of federal advisory committees, according to the group.
FACA requires these groups to be "fairly balanced in terms of the points of view represented and the functions to be performed by the advisory committee," the lawsuit states. The lawsuit was filed shortly after noon Eastern time in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, National Security Counselors told CBS MoneyWatch.
The law requires that advisory committees are "objective and accessible to the public," according to the U.S. General Services Administration.
A coalition representing veterans, public health professionals, teachers and other groups also filed a suit Monday against DOGE, citing FACA and asking a court to block DOGE's activities until it complies with law.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-doge-lawsuit-january-20-trump-inauguration/
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